30 replies to this topic

[Caseyweederman]

I guess Rick just has a thing for crap and vulnerable software.

You mean Windows?

[Megell]

Hey, don't diss windows. Its got its good points, I mean its compatable with everything... mostly because it absorbed the other companies that could ever make another OS into itself. Sort of like the movie the blob.



Mmmmm... so microsoft is a B-movie horror monster.

[Faselei]

I guess Rick just has a thing for crap and vulnerable software.

You mean Windows?

Oh touch?. And very quick.

Is your continuing slavish devotion to the almighty penguin the reason we haven't seen on the beta by the way?

I put Ubuntu on my old PC, but im having trouble with the wireless card... so i'll be joing you soon in the 'nothing works with my machine' club.

[Caseyweederman]

Sweet. You can help us make it work. Come to think of it...
Hey... Yeah...

While using Wine to run Diablo II on a network, I had to fiddle with some things in various hosts files. Remind me that I said that because I might forget.

[Keisad]

I guess Rick just has a thing for crap and vulnerable software.

You mean Windows?

Oh touch?. And very quick.

Is your continuing slavish devotion to the almighty penguin the reason we haven't seen on the beta by the way?

I put Ubuntu on my old PC, but im having trouble with the wireless card... so i'll be joing you soon in the 'nothing works with my machine' club.

Hardware problems in Linux = Some time and free expertise from any of the forums used to asisst Linux users.

Hardware problems in Windows = Taking it to a shop a paying for fixing, with a nice fat charge.

And anyways, why would you pay for faulty software? Just to spend more money on third party programs (or from Microsoft itself) to be able to use it effectively?

Anyways, now I stop, before I get admin'd.

[Caseyweederman]

Hah. Yeah, you could buy from their partners, but do it now before Microsoft stabs them in the back repeatedly by providing the same services regardless of court orders.

[Drackir]

What the heck? Who pays someone to fix a windows computer. That's funny and for that matter hardware problems in any PC can be fixed so easily by anyone if they know how. And don't pretend like there aren't other forums out there with tonnes of windows users that have come across the same things as other people. Sure the official M$crap forums are pretty much useless but there are other forums. I don't like Windows any more than the next guy but if you know how to use it, it works and as Megell said, despite it's reasons it is compatible with (mostly) everything. So, if you are going to sit there and bash it because you are afraid of using it well so be it but maybe you should get off your high biased metaphorical horse and acknowledge that there's a reason that its so widely used and not just "because microsoft is/has..." but also because it works (and without a lot of work) if you know how to use it. To each his own though, I guess. This topic is way off.
~Split~

[Caseyweederman]

(windows is) so widely used

Yeh, um, gee, that's like saying the largest religion in the world is the Catholic religion.
You know why?
Because in most families, catholic is default. You're born, you're one of them.

Owning the market is not the same as deserving it.

[Drackir]

Who said they deserved it? I did not. But there has to be a reason that it is the default no? If it's so bad as you you whine about why then are people still using it? Why do companies support it and why are many game and programs made for it (although it's good to see people starting to make things multiplatform more and more often these days). Look, I'm not saying that Windows deserves to have the largest market share but it does work for the basic computer user and until all software and hardware are completely compatible with most flavours of linux, Windows will continue to hold the market. The Catholic thing is a whole other debate. Let's just leave the religion at the front door and talk about OS's. haha.

[Caseyweederman]

The point is that if Joe A. Tool goes to pick up a computer ("um gee I'll take one of them tharr computer box things") he's not going to ask what his options are. He's going to assume that Windows is just computer techy talk for stuff that does stuff.
So you could say that Microsoft is playing off their users' ignorance and complacency.

Now, let's take a look at their business methods. Dos was stolen shamelessly. They make partnerships with companies and stab them in the face. They lie and cheat.
There is no innovation. Vista is XP that takes all its lessons from *nix and the mac. I won't even start on all the functionality errors. Oh, I mean features.

Their opinion when you use their product is that they own you. Can you argue?

[Megell]

Heck survile of the fittest.

Lets look at it this way; sure I like dinosaurs as much as the next man. not only are they fricken awesome, but if they were around as the live stock of today 1 could feed a village for a month! Only problem is, compared to the other evolution options, such as cows and what we have now... they just aren?t that great.


The bottom line is to each of its own abilities, to each there own position. (Almost Karl, almost.) Linux is great, heck I would prefer to use it if A) I knew how, B ) it operates everything I needed. The bottom line is though it doesn't, and from the way the market is going I doubt it will.

Now also, that comes to the point to which some might say the biggest problem for windows is it isn't open source.

I thank god every day it isn't.

Think about it, if windows de-scrambled their code for every Tom Dick and Harry to see, what would prevent any fool from creating a virus for it, even the ones who usually are computer inept? Microsoft, despite being immense douche bags, have kept the world of computers out of the reach of the immature, the evil, and heck, the simply un-understanding.

Now windows Vista will be improved, or probably die the same horrible fate that the dinosaurs went. No one likes that OS, and its very touchy. Unless of course they completely take XP off the market? then we might be stuck with the equivalent of Macs for PCs. (Sealed with titanium alloy.)

But who?s to say for the common people, and especially the common kid that?s a bad thing? Most kids use computers for typing, gaming, and occasionally art work. Some learn programming, and very few of those people who learn it specialize in creating OS. Having people dumber computer wise on the whole might not be a bad thing, as shocking as that might sound.

Think about it. No more simple, but rapidly changing viruses that stupid kids make. No more crashes from unstabilizing the computer with unstable systems. Heck, no more spy wear, no more trackers?

And whatever still gets made, is made by expert programmers? Which number in the thousands at most, (Or whatever, the number is smaller.) then those viruses? they make are combated by other programmers? and the problems with our computers slow? maybe end one day altogether.

Thus, Microsoft is surprisingly doing something good. They are taking the knowledge of computers out of the hands of the little douche bags that just want to ruin you, and putting it there hands, the assholes who want your monies.

Now Linux is nice and all, but the bottom line is there is a lot more going for windows then Linux will ever have. But don?t let that opinion stop you from using Linux. Heck, I now use a Linux buffer PC for my Internet to stop virus altogether till the end of computer knowledge comes around for most. Heck, its nice that you can edited everything on it, change what you want, and make it go.

It?s a tank.

But remember you can?t drive a tank into an auto shop for repairs, you got to take it to a specialist? and even then that specialist is harder to find then the million professional and semi professionals who specialize in to VW microbus Windows. Remember, I don?t know the first thing about Linux programming, but now I know how to make my little windows dance and become a racecar for me.

[Caseyweederman]

How many viruses are there for Linux, the fully open sourced operating system?
By your logic, it should be absolutely packed, because, after all, the source is open.

Hm. Gee, I don't see a lot of viruses. Anyone got an accurate count for the past, I dunno, seven years?

Oh! Oh! I do!


Zero.

[Megell]

Not really, the reason linux isn't virused is simple. It isn't main stream. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if it was thrice removed from the standerd deviation of use. Think about it, if linux was the standard it would be as virused up as windows. Probably even more so becasue a greater percent of the population would know how it works, and how its open source code works, thus it would be a focus for greater virus creation.

Heck, even macs get virus now.

The reason people don't make linux virus is simple. It doesn't agravate people or cause problems. Too few people use that OS so its not worth while.

[Duma]

<Tangent>
While reading this over, I have come to the decision that saying which OS is better is much like (someone'll hate me over this) saying what religion is better. All OS's have their benefits and drawbacks, much like all the religions out there. Some have more followers than others, and some are more popular than others, some are more complicated than others.
I, personally, have no preference between OS's, and my faith is my own business, but I find it irritating when someone attempts to make whatever they stand for as the ONLY way to think, and everyone else MUST accept it as so, while debating with opposers over how the other is a terrible, horrible thing.
The more I read this debate, the more I find these viciously passionate supporters. All computers on earth cannot run on only one OS, no matter how large the majority is; someone will always choose or create another one.
</tangent>

[Megell]

Agreed, though persoally I've found that linux serves more of a utility purpose then a actual OS. though thats just what you basically said, opinion.

[Faselei]

Okay... so i got the wireless working...

Now, some DVD's work, others don't because they are 'encrypted'... you can get the software, but it is in effect illegal...

This is not the fault of the open source community as these encryptions are the fault of the DVD manufacturers and MS etc in enforcing them... but that is little solace to me, who wants to watch my DVDs that i paid for...

Of course i can just bit torrent them, something I have never done before... ironic huh.

[Megell]

you know the old saying, "only two things are limitless, the universe, and human stupidity... and I'm not to sure about the universe anymore."

[Kinewa]

Katimavik computers are all Ubuntu. It's pretty cool, but I suspect it reflects the overall cheapness of our government.

My point? Ubuntu good. Windows programs that they expect us to run with ubuntu: not so good.

[Caseyweederman]

First off, Linux serves very well as 'utility' because it's ultimately robust. Air traffic control. Cell phones. Servers. These all rely on healthy software. Linux is healthy software suited to all of these things and everything else because of its insane ability to learn and adapt. It just happens to also be an incredible operating system that is overlooked because people, on the whole, fear learning.

Now. Addressing the virus argument.
Windows - main stream. Source? Highly protected, not released to public. Viruses? Too many to count.
Linux - not main stream, yet still incredibly widely used. Source? Freely given. Viruses? Next to none.
Yes, they exist, but they're totally obscure and I've never met, in real life or on the internet, a single person who's contracted one.
According to those of you behind this argument, an operating system with its source spread wiiide open to any tom, dick or harry should be completely insecure.
Also mentioned was the fact that Microsoft likes to keep people stupid.

But who?s to say for the common people, and especially the common kid that?s a bad thing? Most kids use computers for typing, gaming, and occasionally art work. Some learn programming, and very few of those people who learn it specialize in creating OS. Having people dumber computer wise on the whole might not be a bad thing, as shocking as that might sound.

Now, first, the type of person who uses Linux is the type of person who learns programming and likes being able to freely tweak his or her OS.

That's a blatant contradiction.
Windows users are kept in the dark, yet Windows has all the viruses.
Linux users are given everything, all freedom, all knowledge, and told to learn how it works, ask questions, explore this programmed universe, and yet Linux is the one with no viruses.

There are two types of people.

First, the most common (fitting, as Windows users are the most common). These people teach themselves to betray knowledge. They tell themselves that they know everything they need to know. They don't ask questions. When they come across something they don't understand, they ignore it. They've already learned all they ever will. They will continue to get on with their lives, and if anyone suggests otherwise, these people get not only defensive but extremely offensive. "You're being condescending." "Don't talk to me like I'm stupid." "I don't need to know this stuff." "I just want to get on with my life, none of this affects me."
They acknowledge nothing outside of their tiny range of perception. They fear the unknown. Change terrifies them.
Microsoft is encouraging this type of person. And you know what? This is the type of person to use any knowledge they are given as a destructive force. Those stupid 'gangsters' in high school. They don't want to learn, so they spray paint idiotic offal on the school walls. Microsoft is promoting stupidity and closedmindedness!


The second type of person. This person never stops asking why. These people want to know how things work, or the bigger picture, or how specific things are connected. These people admit that they don't know everything, but they're always learning. Sure, these people aren't heard from as often, that's because they aren't obnoxious idiots who fear change. These people quietly ask the questions that truly matter. When these people come across something unknown, they don't close their eyes, cover their ears and hum, no. They keep their eyes wide open to learn the things unknown. They always experiment, they always want to look at things from different perspectives. They are never afraid of learning.
I can only aspire to be like this.
Linux, as an operating system, cultivates this type of person. By telling the community openly that this is how the universe works, this is how everything is connected, everyone can comitt to creating. Every single user has the ability to promote Linux just as it promotes them. This is a healthy cycle of learning.

Stupidity is never an option, and it is a crime against humanity to promote it.

Now. Regarding the tank metaphor. That's a very narrow way of approaching the analogy.
The world is that specialist. Every single Linux user has the opportunity to address any issue, because every single Linux user is going through the same thing. This is an incredible worldwide community dedicated to the growth of all its individuals.

[Kinewa]

I'm an ignorant Windows user!

Until I have more time to fiddle with the finer points of Linux, of course I'll stick with what I know. I would learn more if I had the time to, mind you, I do like what I've seen.